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Post by sfgreg on Sept 11, 2018 21:07:42 GMT -5
I get a 4 second or so beep tone, (from a mini speaker mounted and wired under the dash, not by me) when I shut the motor OFF.
Here are a few other characteristics:
- it happens ONLY after the motor has run for at least a few minutes, either with muffs on it (i tried that tonight), or on the water (possibly because it's warmer) but it never happens if I just run it and then shut it off right away. - in NEVER happens while it's actually running. - it ONLY happens when I turn the key to shut it off, and happens after the motor is off, for about 4 seconds or so.
any ideas? I can't find anything about this anywhere. The previous owner says it's "supposed to do that," but when we took it out I'm pretty convinced it didn't, and when I took it out for a first ride with my mechanic, I don't remember it happening either. Furthermore, there's nothing online about this particular behaviour.
thanks for any ideas.
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Post by sfgreg on Sept 18, 2018 21:13:41 GMT -5
I'll start by showing the first two pics of the piezo/speaker with two wires leading from it. I'll add three more pics and some explanations in the next reply.
It's a small round speaker, with two wires leading from it.
One wire is brown and one is purple. These connect (via terminal connections), to two new wires -brown to yellow and purple to pink. I'll talk about the yellow and pink in the next post in this thread.
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Post by sfgreg on Sept 18, 2018 21:20:05 GMT -5
So now we're dealing with a yellow and pink wire, as seen in "pic 2."
The yellow wire joins another yellow wire that's apparently coming off the ignition (at least that area), which shares a Y connection to the speaker/piezo and the sum of those two go to the ignition wiring harness, from what this newboe can tell. See pic 3
I'm almost 100% sure the pink wire also goes to the same harness - as I try to decipher my own pics of the spaghetti under there. afew hours after being home from the boat, I realise I'm not 100% sure even how to describe it.
I can investigate any of this further and provide additional pics.
teamruby - much of this intended is for your eyes, since you're good with using pics and a great thinking mind to sort through this kinda thing.
Thanks all
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Post by Team Ruby on Sept 18, 2018 22:23:25 GMT -5
Here's what I have at this point. The yellow wire is an ignition on 12 volt source wire. With the ignition off you should not see 12 volts on this wire with a VOM. The fact that the alarm sounds after the switch is off had me wondering if the buzzer was wired to the wrong side of the switch. If you have a test light ground it and then test the yellow wire, the light should not light. If it does that's part of the problem, wrong side of the switch.
The pink wire is a temperature sensor ground. Another and quicker test would be to locate the temperature sensor (black and pink wire) on the engine and run the engine as you have and shut the engine off. If the buzzer sounds restart the engine and remove the pink wire on the engine power head and repeat the test. If the buzzer doesn't sound after you shut the engine down you may have a bad temperature sensor.
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Post by sfgreg on Sept 19, 2018 8:42:43 GMT -5
Here's what I have at this point. The yellow wire is an ignition on 12 volt source wire. With the ignition off you should not see 12 volts on this wire with a VOM. The fact that the alarm sounds after the switch is off had me wondering if the buzzer was wired to the wrong side of the switch. If you have a test light ground it and then test the yellow wire, the light should not light. If it does that's part of the problem, wrong side of the switch. The pink wire is a temperature sensor ground. Another and quicker test would be to locate the temperature sensor (black and pink wire) on the engine and run the engine as you have and shut the engine off. If the buzzer sounds restart the engine and remove the pink wire on the engine power head and repeat the test. If the buzzer doesn't sound after you shut the engine down you may have a bad temperature sensor. Thanks TeamRuby. since using a test light is new to me, I'll try the second test (the temp sensor) first, as you describe, and report back. I do hear these often fail on yamaha motors. In your opinion, am I playing with fire to not take this alarm sound seriously? or is that a better question asked after I do the test? Last thing I need with a new to me boat, (and new to me boating) is to ruin an engine. Ugh. At the same time, I haven't been able to enjoy the boat on the water due to some of these smaller-deal-to-some, bigger-deal-for-me fixups.
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Post by Team Ruby on Sept 19, 2018 9:56:30 GMT -5
Pulling the pink wire will help to confirm if the buzzer is being activated by this sensor or not. If this turns out to be the problem then the next thing to look at would be the yellow wire that the buzzer is connected to. It would appear at this point to be wired to the wrong side of the ignition switch. I know the switch can be a little daunting to work with, so this might be something you might want to get a tech to take care of if you confirm the temp sensor is the issue or not. If you're up to testing it you can use either a test light or a VOM. With the ignition in the OFF position you should not see the test light illuminate or see any voltage reading on the VOM.
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Post by sfgreg on Sept 22, 2018 18:06:05 GMT -5
Pulling the pink wire will help to confirm if the buzzer is being activated by this sensor or not. If this turns out to be the problem then the next thing to look at would be the yellow wire that the buzzer is connected to. It would appear at this point to be wired to the wrong side of the ignition switch. I know the switch can be a little daunting to work with, so this might be something you might want to get a tech to take care of if you confirm the temp sensor is the issue or not. If you're up to testing it you can use either a test light or a VOM. With the ignition in the OFF position you should not see the test light illuminate or see any voltage reading on the VOM. Quick update - i printed out your instructions above, to try the pink/blk wire experiment. I have attached 3 pics to show what I found. pic 9505 - shows the pink/black wire terminating in some sort of Multi connector. That's where the pink/black wire ends, and I can't tell how I would remove it alone. I can't even get that multi connector to come apart - perhaps I need a special tool? Also - it appears, (to my untrained eye) that the wires come in to the motor area, and go right back out and leave the engine area via the same harness they came in on. Also notice the connector with the green/red wire that is just hanging there unused - don't know what that is for or was for. Also not sure what that cylinder looking thing is. pic 9506 shows what looks like a pink wire into a connection that joins to a red wire - is this where I disconnect it? I don't actually see a pink and black single wire connected to the actual engine anywhere. pic 9507 - interesting that there is a pink and black wire under the dash right near the piezo buzzer speaker (where the buzz sound comes from when I shut off the motor) - the wire is not connected to anything. Today, after starting (and immediately stopping) the motor, because I didn't have the muffs connected, the same buzz sounded. I think that's the first time it happened without being warm first. either that or this whole thing is intermittent. Any insights? thanks as always. ***UPDATE - just got off the phone with the previous owner. He claims Sailfish wired it this way as a system check/confidence buzzer - basically to say that the alarm system and temp sensor is working. He says if it doesn't sound when I shut off the key, I should be concerned that my warning system/temp sensor etc isn't functioning properly. He was also surprised that other forum members hadn't heard of this (I've posted this issue in a few places, with the only real respons being from you), and that all of his boats have had this system check upon shutting off the motor. Does his even makes sense? I don't know him well enough to know, but I can't imagine why he'd want me to risk anything.
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Post by Team Ruby on Sept 23, 2018 0:16:26 GMT -5
Pulling the pink wire will help to confirm if the buzzer is being activated by this sensor or not. If this turns out to be the problem then the next thing to look at would be the yellow wire that the buzzer is connected to. It would appear at this point to be wired to the wrong side of the ignition switch. I know the switch can be a little daunting to work with, so this might be something you might want to get a tech to take care of if you confirm the temp sensor is the issue or not. If you're up to testing it you can use either a test light or a VOM. With the ignition in the OFF position you should not see the test light illuminate or see any voltage reading on the VOM. Quick update - i printed out your instructions above, to try the pink/blk wire experiment. I have attached 3 pics to show what I found. pic 9505 - shows the pink/black wire terminating in some sort of Multi connector. That's where the pink/black wire ends, and I can't tell how I would remove it alone. I can't even get that multi connector to come apart - perhaps I need a special tool? Also - it appears, (to my untrained eye) that the wires come in to the motor area, and go right back out and leave the engine area via the same harness they came in on. Also notice the connector with the green/red wire that is just hanging there unused - don't know what that is for or was for. Also not sure what that cylinder looking thing is. What you're looking at is a watertight connector, this is not what you're looking for. One half of the connector is for the harness that runs to the console, the other half runs to the temperature sensor. I'm not an engine guy, so to respond back to you I did as much research as I could with the Internet. I'm sure there are engine guys on the forum here and I hope someone will step in and offer better advice. I did find that the temperature sensor should be located on the top cylinder on the starboard of the motor. If you can pull those wires out this is where the test would be performed at.
The green wire with a red trace is not used on your engine. It would be used on a 2 cycle engine, that wire is for the oil tank sensor. The cylinder thing is used when a diagnostic harness is used by a servicing mechanic, so it's normally no-functional just as you see it now.
pic 9506 shows what looks like a pink wire into a connection that joins to a red wire - is this where I disconnect it? I don't actually see a pink and black single wire connected to the actual engine anywhere. I could not find this on my schematic, so I don't what that harness is for.
pic 9507 - interesting that there is a pink and black wire under the dash right near the piezo buzzer speaker (where the buzz sound comes from when I shut off the motor) - the wire is not connected to anything. That's another mystery, it might have been for a piece of equipment no longer on the boat. I did look up the color code and it's not a Yamaha wire.Today, after starting (and immediately stopping) the motor, because I didn't have the muffs connected, the same buzz sounded. I think that's the first time it happened without being warm first. either that or this whole thing is intermittent. Any insights? thanks as always. ***UPDATE - just got off the phone with the previous owner. He claims Sailfish wired it this way as a system check/confidence buzzer - basically to say that the alarm system and temp sensor is working. He says if it doesn't sound when I shut off the key, I should be concerned that my warning system/temp sensor etc isn't functioning properly. He was also surprised that other forum members hadn't heard of this (I've posted this issue in a few places, with the only real respons being from you), and that all of his boats have had this system check upon shutting off the motor. Does his even makes sense? I don't know him well enough to know, but I can't imagine why he'd want me to risk anything. To me what the previous owner has said doesn't make sense. That would be like turning the ignition off on your car and your overheat alarm goes off after the engine shuts down. When you turn a car off everything goes quiet. I've been on a lot boats and I can't ever recall an alarm sounding once the ignition is turned off.
Let's ask the forum, does anyone have the same thing sfgreg is seeing, an alarm that sounds after the ignition is turned off?
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Post by outtadblue on Sept 23, 2018 9:32:29 GMT -5
I also have Berber heard of an alarm sounding after the ignition is turned off. If it has been wired for the reason above, it just doesn't make since. I tend to think it just isn't wired correctly.
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Post by Team Ruby on Sept 23, 2018 10:15:27 GMT -5
Outtadblue, thanks for responding.
It will help if everyone reading this thread leaves a post either confirming that their boat does not sound an alarm after the ignition is turned completely off or does to sound an alarm briefly. It will be interesting to see if anyone has the latter condition and could possibly shed any light with what is going on with sfgreg's boat.
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Post by kbh on Sept 23, 2018 10:41:04 GMT -5
Never heard of it. I've heard of alarms going off when turning the key to the on position that go off when the engine starts. In theory, there shouldn't be any power to anything connected to the engine when the key is turned to "off". Could it be a low power alarm to an electronic device such as an MFD that is still on? Maybe something with a battery back up for holding it's settings that takes 4 or 5 seconds to power down. Only suggestion I have is to try it with everything else on the boat turned off and see it it still buzzes.
Edit: Actually, after thinking about it the trim and tilt would still have power. But that shouldn't have anything to do with a buzzer.
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Post by sfgreg on Sept 23, 2018 12:02:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the input, and Teamruby for always going above and beyond. I'm right at the edge of my comfort zone with this, so moving slowly. The boat's in my driveway, so I can mess with it with all tools on hand.
I attached a couple of pics to see if there's any way to determine where the temp sensor is, and what wires I'd disconnect to try out TeamRuby's test. I've googleds all kinds of stuff to see the location. By the way - i see "water temperature sensor" "temperature sensor" and "thermostat" as I search - are they all the same thing?
I tried to upload a movie of the key on, engine start, shut off engine, steady alarm tone sounds - but it was "file too big"
In the pics you see the starboard side of the motor zoomed out, and I've been online a bunch this am to see what a temp sensor might look like. The closest I can find is what I zoomed in on - pic 9511. If I disconnect that wire connector, the engine won't even start.
Oddly enough, if I trace the harness I showed yesterday, with the single pink/black wire going into a connector, and then continuing on as a separate black and pink wire, that DOES end under the pivot point of the motor at the transom - right where the main axle of the motor allows tilt and trim to happen, kind of right above the tilt/trim assy - but I don't see any sensor there.
My main issue is this - I've had the boat a month, and when I can, I've tried to get it ready to hit the water. The alarm is the only thing that scares me - is it a risk to take it out when an alarm sounds only when I shut it off? I guess there's no way of knowing. meanwhile I'm frustratingly landlocked unless I trust the alarm is not really an alarm, if you catch my drift.
Thanks all.
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Post by sfgreg on Sept 23, 2018 12:05:28 GMT -5
Never heard of it. I've heard of alarms going off when turning the key to the on position that go off when the engine starts. In theory, there shouldn't be any power to anything connected to the engine when the key is turned to "off". Could it be a low power alarm to an electronic device such as an MFD that is still on? Maybe something with a battery back up for holding it's settings that takes 4 or 5 seconds to power down. Only suggestion I have is to try it with everything else on the boat turned off and see it it still buzzes. No electronics are on during this situation, at least none of the switches are on. hmm - could it be a warning to turn the battery switch to off? or move it from 1, to 2, or to "all? Interesting. Thanks Also, with such little in-water use (no alternator/recharge), and ton of tilt/trim movements (for repairs and testing) that might drain the battery, could it be a low battery power sensor? Just going with logic.
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Post by kbh on Sept 23, 2018 12:35:28 GMT -5
I can't imagine it being a battery switch warning. Although it's a great idea. It could have saved me a few dead battery fiascos.
Thermostat opens and closes mechanically with the heat of the engine. It's normally in the lower center on the rear of the block.
Temperature sensor reads the temperature of the water at the location in the head. Picture 1 is the sensor. They can either be on/off switches to either signal a horn or buzzer, or shut or slow down the motor when overheating or they can be gradient style which are hooked up to a temperature gauge. Or a combination of both I suppose.
And, an interesting side note. After looking at your picture it looks like the sensor is new compared to everything else on the block that has been sprayed with the nasty anti-corrosion stuff. Any ideas about that?
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Post by sfgreg on Sept 23, 2018 12:40:24 GMT -5
Thanks - OK, so that IS the temperature sensor - and yes it does look new. No historical info on that though. I wish!! Interesting to me is that if i unhook the wires to the sensor in pic 1 above, the motor won't even start. EDIT - that particular sensor won't tighten. even though it has a "bolt head" (like a spark plug), it doesn't seem to be threaded or holding onto any threads. It's held in place by a plastic bracket. I just thought that info might add to the facts on the ground.
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