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Post by EasyPeasy on Apr 30, 2023 11:09:24 GMT -5
I remember a previous thread mentioning up to a million hours of experience on this forum - I need some salty advice.
Some of you may remember, I spent the last two seasons about this time buying a Makita polisher, wool pads, a few different varieties of heavy cut compound, and working my butt off trying to restore my deep blue hull. They always looked *excellent* when completed, but by July/August would show signs, and by the end of the season it was just as bad as before. This year, I decided to hang it up and spend the $$ to have someone wet sand it to really restore it.
However, I had one detailer willing to do it (recommended in a regional fishing group on Facebook), but as I wait for him, he seems to be a bit flaky, and would take my money for any job, and just do it. He was going to be about $1600.... Next I was referred to another more professional company, who looked it over, and reluctantly said that he didn't think a wet sand would really last, and it might prove to be a waste of money. Suggested I consider a new paint job for the hull. He would remove all items, properly paint, polish and it would last like new for years with proper care.
I'm afraid even a wet sand would look chalky and dry by mid season, as have my compound/polish/wax efforts... And if I paint, I could even change the color (to another Sailfish color, but not so dark...)
Thoughts? Has anyone had real success with wet sanding, or is it a mistake, and should I really just bite the bullet and paint? I'm either going to keep this boat for years, or sell it, in either case I suppose I want it to look beautiful....
Thanks in advance?
Stu
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Post by fishnfool on Apr 30, 2023 11:26:12 GMT -5
As someone that was in your shoes not long ago, albeit it sounds like my gelcoat was in better shape, meaning I didn't need to wet sand it, but I did have to take the rotary to it at least twice a season to keep it looking good followed each time having rewax the hull.
I just got tired of chasing the shine and opted to have my hull painted.
I concur with the recommendation, that a wet sand may last longer, but it will not eliminate the problem, so unless you're prepared to stay on top of the shine and by that I mean preemptively polishing/waxing it 3 or 4 times in a season (before it starts to deteriorate), the gelcoat will eventually revert to its former state.
At a cost of $1600 you'd be better served in the long run if you plan to keep the boat, putting that money towards a rub rail to waterline paint job.
Keep in mind that paint does NOT eliminate the need to care for it, but it does not chalk like gelcoat and maintains a lasting shine. After a few years it will require a once a season polish/wax to maintain the shine to its optimum level.
Paint is also less durable than hard gelcoat so it's more susceptible to damage eg scratches, chips etc.
On the plus side, depending on what paint you choose, the paint is repairable much in the same way gelocat is but easier to match.
I'm very happy after 3 yrs and my arms and shoulders are greatful.
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Post by EasyPeasy on Apr 30, 2023 11:29:31 GMT -5
Chris, do you recall about what the cost was? I know inflation makes 3 years ago practically irrelevant, but just wondering ballpark.... Thanks - and thanks for your insight....
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Post by fishnfool on Apr 30, 2023 11:47:44 GMT -5
Chris, do you recall about what the cost was? I know inflation makes 3 years ago practically irrelevant, but just wondering ballpark.... Thanks - and thanks for your insight.... There are many things that will influence final cost that you need to keep in mind... For starters you will find cost will/can vary widely from shop to shop for the same paint job. Furthermore the type of paint process you decide - single stage or two stage (base plus clear coat) will impact the cost. If your hull requires a lot of repairs before paint your cost will be impacted. If you want the motors/brackets removed and/or the rub rail removed etc all of this will drive up the cost. If you want a boot stripe painted on this too will drive up the cost. Your expectations and the scope of work should be understood when soliciting bids. I think the base cost i paid was approx $125 plf for an Awlcraft single stage paint job. This was rubrail to waterline, no derigging or rubrail removal paint job. There was some extra faring that was required to fix some mold imperfections because I didn't want to see them under the new paint so that increased my final cost some, as did having my boot stripe painted on. The double boot strip paint job was actually pretty expensive relative to what I paid for just the paint job. I think that cost was around $2,300 but worth it IMO. I also paid them to reinstall the SF letters on the hull side (I provided them) but this also added to the cost. The most important thing is to find a shop that is reputable and experienced. If that shop primarily only shoots Imron, go with Imron. If you want Awlcraft, find a shop that primarily only shoots Awlcraft and Awlgrip. Go look at some boats they painted, in person, not pictures. I think pricing expectations in the $150 - $200+ plf for say a single stage Awlcraft or Imron paint job would be appropriate, this assumes no boot and no repairs/xtra faring but don't be surprised when you see proposals for twice that amount. Your mileage may vary...
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Post by finatic on Apr 30, 2023 18:58:27 GMT -5
Just a thought, I've seem some very nice wraps. I don't know chit about them but maybe worth a looking into.
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Post by outtadblue on May 1, 2023 8:23:51 GMT -5
Chris is spot on. I wet sanded mine about 3 years ago and it looked new. By the end of the year it was faded again. I compound and buff mine yearly and wax 2 to 3 times a year. It’s not horrible looking but it doesn’t look new either. I will paint it before I wet sand again. I have a buddy that had his 3 year old boat painted a couple weeks ago. It started fading after a couple months. Had it professionally sanded several times. The manufacturer finally agreed to have it painted. It looks very nice. By the way it was not a Sailfish.
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Post by Twisted on May 1, 2023 9:28:49 GMT -5
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Post by lainiej on May 1, 2023 10:02:06 GMT -5
I have a 2007 blue hull and have the same issue you have Easypeasy. I had my fiberglass guy look at it last spring for a possible wetsand and he said don't waste your money it won't last. He recommended a wrap or new paint job, he does neither so he has no skin in the game. I don't feel like spending the money on either right now. I started using Fluid Film last year and after it is applied which takes about 5 minutes the hull looks brand new, LOL. I have to reapply every other week or so but only takes 5 minutes with a soft brush and cost is $10 a can on Amazon and lasts for several applications. I know cheap way out but it works! The Fluid Film is lanolin based which is from sheep skin a nd doesn't pollute the water or leave a film on the hull that can't be removed.
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Post by fishnfool on May 1, 2023 10:26:31 GMT -5
I priced out wrapping my boat and up this way there are only a few places that would do it, I even contacted a sign company that wraps cars/trucks for company vehicles.
The cost of a wrap at every place I called was as much or more than what I was quoted for the "basic" paint job before adding the optional stuff. The other hitch with a wrap, if the wrap gets ripped/damaged say you rub against a dock, you can't repair it, it has to be replaced.
I even priced out/considered ceramic costing and again pricing came out to close to what it would cost for a paint job. And ceramic coating still won't totally solve the oxidation problem and it requires a regimented maintenance program with ceramic products to maintain it and the person that applies it wants you to sign up for a maintenance program in order to maintain the warranty so over the long run you end up spending a lot more on ceramic coating.
At +/-$3k to wrap or ceramic coat I decided that money would be better applied to a paint job.
Hope that helps
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jerryk
Captain
When not online I'm likely on Knot Online
Posts: 597
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Post by jerryk on May 1, 2023 11:18:46 GMT -5
Another option exists. On my first boat, a maroon hull that was impossible to keep looking good for more than a few months, I finally tried a product called Vertglas which doesn't appear to be available anymore...but a similar product is called MS51 and comes as a kit or just the sealer. Vertglas did a great job and after 6 or 7 very easy to apply coats the finish HELD UP and years later still looked great when I sold it. If MS51 is the same or similar, I would recommend it and it is worth a DIY try before painting. I would recommend getting the sealer applicator if you just get the MS51 rather than the kit as it looks like the same viscosity as the Vertglas, very watery, and a normal brush would drip and put too much down each coat. Not for below waterline as it will turn milky if submerged too long. www.marinestore.com/ms-fiberglass-gelcoat-restorer
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Post by EasyPeasy on May 1, 2023 12:29:59 GMT -5
I'm overwhelmed. Thank you everyone. First of all you've convinced me to cancel the wet sand. That seems clear. Second, I'm a big fan of Fluid Film and can't wait to try it as a new option for the boat. Finally, though I think I've tried them all, I'll try the Smoove Pro Cut 2500 and maybe plan on a mid season haul out to freshen it up. And I'm going to research more on Vertglas....
I want it to look nice, but I'm also cheap. You have to be cheap when you have a boat. I mean, spend money when it matters, but don't throw it away..... 'cuz there are too many places to throw it.....
I can't begin to describe how valuable this forum has been to me.., Thanks
Don't look for pics any time soon. I'm postponing the splash to tinker and clean thoroughly....but I will return.
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jerryk
Captain
When not online I'm likely on Knot Online
Posts: 597
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Post by jerryk on May 1, 2023 13:01:17 GMT -5
Good luck! If you (or anyone else on this forum) try the MS51 (Vertglas replacement since Vertglas went out of production around 2012) please share your results. Due to my dark blue Sailfish hull, I may be trying it soon myself since I'm already seeing my work from February starting to fade. Summers are too hot here to take on a 2nd polish job so by cooler weather it may be pretty bad again.
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Post by fishnfool on May 1, 2023 13:02:10 GMT -5
Keep in mind Easy, any of these semi permanent coating systems you apply to your gelcoat now will require extra time and cost to remove if and when you go to have your hull painted, that goes for ceramic coatings too. First thing my painter asked me was if the hull was ceramic coated.
Food for thought...
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jerryk
Captain
When not online I'm likely on Knot Online
Posts: 597
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Post by jerryk on May 1, 2023 13:09:15 GMT -5
Good point. For the MS51 sealer/restorer they also make a spray on remover named MS61. Before applying MS51 you will want to ensure all wax etc. is gone and I suspect prep for ANY coating or paint or wrap would entail similar removal of all prior coatings. More so with paint because any bit of wax or ceramic will mess with the way the paint flows out on the hull surface.
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Post by EasyPeasy on May 1, 2023 18:45:14 GMT -5
Well, upon reflection, I can't see *not* trying the MS51 Gelcoat restorer. The Heavy Duty kit for large boats is only $110, and doesn't require buffing or polishing. I plan to order it and will give feedback.
Part of me says, check the ingredients and see if its the same as Fluid Film! LOL.... Another part asks, who would ever buy a *second* boat with a dark hull? Certainly not me!
Thanks - more news end of May....
S
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