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Post by tunawhisperer on Nov 29, 2023 14:23:49 GMT -5
I saw the few other posts about autopilots. I have a 240cc and looking into getting this done. Would rather not do it myself, but my 1st quote is 10k! This is for the Garmin Reactor 40 with smartpump V2 and control head. Looks like I could buy this for $3,899. Plus any parts/hoses/ect.
Couple questions for those who installed an AP are 1) what system did you go with? 2) what did you pay for labor or did you DIY?
Trying to get a gauge on today's market as it has definitely changed the last couple years.
I currently have Garmin electronics and would like to stick with Garmin if possible, but open to suggestions.
I think 10k is insane but this is also on Cape Cod where maybe they get enough folks who don't care about $$. I am on the south shore of Boston and if anyone has any recommendations for an installer I would greatly appreciate it. Going to look around for more quotes.
Appreciate any feedback!
Craig
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Nov 29, 2023 15:11:50 GMT -5
Craig, I just got a Raymarine autopilot install done. I did most of it myself, but initially asked a pro to quote it with intentions to just pay to get it done since I didn't know what I was doing with the hydraulics and figured his approach might be easier or at least more efficient. He wouldn't quote a firm price but said it could vary and his rate was $200/hr and he thought it could run to $1200 or so plus about $350 in hydraulic hoses and parts (I already had purchased the autopilot). Once he saw the Uflex electric power steering though he changed to a no quote as he didn't know how to interface to that system. Ultimately I hired him for consulting and to get the hoses I needed, and after showing him the research I did on the Uflex interfacing and tearing apart the boat myself so he could see and access the hydraulic lines better, he did ultimately do the majority of the hydraulic hose hook ups and screwed the pump down where I had planned to have it (basically he agreed with my plans for the items that comprise the autopilot system). I installed the compass, control head, computer, and networked it all together. I also did the in water set up and calibration steps. Note that I previously had connected the rest of my boat components to a NMEA 2000 network backbone that I added last year, so tying the autopilot components together was pretty easy.
I figure the Garmin is probably as good as any other brand and it's all in what you are used to. If you want to ask any specific questions about my set up just message me or put a question in this thread publicly and I'll do my best to answer.
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Post by fishnfool on Nov 29, 2023 15:48:27 GMT -5
I have the Reactor 40 with a standard 1.7l pump and shadow drive. I bought it from and had BOE Marine install it. Install cost was nowhere near $10k assuming that doesn't include the equipment? I want to say it was around $3500 for just installation and dockside wizard set up.
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Post by tunawhisperer on Nov 29, 2023 16:16:57 GMT -5
Appreciate the feedback. The 10k included equipment/set up and everything. Estimating they are charging about $6,000 for install(including hoses/parts) and making some off selling the unit as a dealer if I can get everything for $3,899 they are probably getting it for less. Will definitely get some more quotes. Messing around with the hydraulics is my only hesitation with DIY. I have installed electronics on a couple other boats and comfortable doing it.
Long winter ahead to figure this out...
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Post by fishnfool on Nov 29, 2023 16:26:53 GMT -5
Figuring it out is half the fun.
Definitely shop it around, even if you buy the parts separately, you can always get someone to install it.
I didn't want to mess with the hydraulic limes either. I will say installed got everything installed and there was a leak at thr pump. He was stumped, he had to call Garmin. Turns out, faulty pump, Garmin sent a new one but it meant he had to come back to reinstall. Glad it wasn't me doing it!
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Post by fishnfool on Nov 29, 2023 16:29:49 GMT -5
And I wouldn’t overlook the Reactor 40 with a standard pump. The only real benefit to the smart pump is you don't have to worry about sizing the pump for your steering system. The drawback to that system is, if the pump fails the entire unit needs to be replaced, that ecu and all. If my pump fails I can just buy a new pump.
The Reactor 40 non smart pump system is cheaper too.
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Nov 29, 2023 16:33:28 GMT -5
I will say that getting the hoses from a knowledgeable installer probably saved me some trips to the hardware store, but there was no magic to the hydraulics and now that I've seen it done once I wouldn't hesitate to do the full install. Sounds like a lot of cash to install that you can save. I'm happy to guide you Craig, give me a pm and I'll call you so I can talk you through it if you want. This was my first outboard A/P so it was new to me...but it's no mystery anymore and certainly is DIY if you've done other electronics before.
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Post by hookedup on Nov 29, 2023 16:50:49 GMT -5
Craig, I agree with Chris that the smart pump isn't a very smart buy IMHO. If you're paying someone to install it, they should be able to size it properly for your setup and not have to use the smart pump. On my previous boat I installed a Raymarine autopilot and it was fine. When I went to install an autopilot on the Sailfish I decided after some research to install a Simrad. Bad research. The Raymarine would have been better, but the Simrad does work, just not as good as the Raymarine did.
Haven't installed a Garmin yet, but most autopilots are similar. My MFD is Garmin and it works fine with the Simrad. Good luck on getting a reasonable price for the install. I don't know about where you are, but down here I could easily call quite a few people to get pricing on the install and maybe even get them to compete on price.
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Post by fishnfool on Nov 29, 2023 19:19:05 GMT -5
I called Garmin to confirm sizing. There is a chart that shows pump size based on model anf fluid capacity of hydro steering system. Pretty simple to figure out on your own. Most people think the bigger the pump the better, not so. My pump is relatively small but I only have one steering cylinder. Garmin tech support was very helpful, just know the model of your Seastar cylinder.
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Post by tunawhisperer on Nov 30, 2023 7:39:42 GMT -5
Thanks again for the help! I am leaning towards figuring out what I need and buying everything myself. Then figure out installation.
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Nov 30, 2023 8:34:24 GMT -5
I may have oversized my pump because we weren't sure what effect, if any, the Ultraflex power assist would have on the size calculation. Based only on the Uflex steering rams with a twin configuration (steering rams in series not parallel) I had 140 CC of fluid capacity to move, and the smaller (and cheaper) type 1 pump was rated up to 120 or 130 CC max...so I went up to the type 2 pump. Since the autopilot pump drives into the Ultraflex power assist pump its "feeling" the same power assist that I enjoy at the helm so it isn't working too hard that's for sure...but I'm OK with that because it means less wear and tear on the A/P pump, probably less power consumption in use, and lower pressures in the hoses which might extend their life a bit too. And if I ever have the Ultraflex assist pump die or accidently be off, the A/P pump should still have the oomph to do the job.
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Post by outtadblue on Nov 30, 2023 10:34:06 GMT -5
I installed a Garmin 40 on the Yellowfin I run back in the spring. It had uflex steering. The install was pretty easy. I watched a couple YouTube videos and read the instructions. I had my local boat dealer get the hoses that I needed.
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Post by wesley8808 on Nov 30, 2023 12:07:19 GMT -5
Craig,
I am in the process of finishing up my AP install. I just have to connect the hoses at this point. I went with the 1.2L pump with a Reactor 40 system. I also have Garmin electronics. I also have the Uflex steering and it took me forever to get the courage and correct information for the fittings. I had installed all the components except connecting the hydraulics. So I had asked a local installer to just do the hydraulic connections and he quoted me "at least $3000" which I thought was ridiculous.
I didn't think it would be that hard and honestly it wasn't. My issue was settling on the layout of the lines and then understanding the fittings for my particular situation. I elected to T off the helm and run a line directly to the pump. Ideally, I would have run the T off the pump and connect the original hydraulic hoses to the pump and then up to the helm from the T. But because of the distances and where I was putting the pump, I couldn't get the original hydraulic lines to reach the pump. So plan B was to T off the back of the helm instead.
Once you understand the correct fittings, it is pretty straight forward. Just make sure you have the right fitting connections needed when you have your hoses made. I went to a Parker Distributor and while they were helpful, they didn't give me the correct fittings and I had to go back and have them redo a couple of hoses. Although it isn't entirely their fault. But since it cost me more money, I am blaming them.
Even with the mistake, my cost breakdown is as follows: $2100 Reactor 40 AP System (and a GHC20) with 1.2L Pump (purchased a new system from a THT member that bought but didn't use) - it was a great price $600 for hoses and fittings (had it been done correct the first time, it would have only been $400) $350 electrical supplies (I took the time to rewire to a dedicated start and house configuration)(Includes switch, breakers, bus bars, wire, etc)
The following are costs associated with my DIY install that I hope you won't have (there has to be a better bilge layout for the 245DC!!!): $50 medical supplied when putting the battery puzzle back in place - the battery slipped and took a HUGE chunk of skin off my thumb $55 new gas strut that I bent when I recoiled from the initial pain of dropping the battery on my thumb when reinstalling - Note to self they bend with very little lateral pressure!!!
My advice would be to give it a shot and do the install yourself, I have no regrets with doing the install myself and would definitely be able to do another much faster. Plus, it forced me to crawl around and look all over the rigging for future references. I actually found some issues with the Uflex connections in the bilge. I as having power issues with the steering pump coming on, and when looking I noticed a Deutsch connecter had evidence of corrosion (green contacts). Made me think about looking at the other connectors which also showed signs of corrosion. So I added connector maintenance on my list of spring cleaning activities.
If you have doubts, come back to the forum and ask. I also emailed Uflex USA directly with some questions (about pump placement work and fitting size types (should have done this from the beginning)) and they were super helpful and responsive. I got emails back within an hour or two.
Good luck to you.
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Nov 30, 2023 14:20:36 GMT -5
One thing I got from Uflex is that the A/P pump has to be installed BELOW the level of the Uflex pump. That made my pump placement decision easy...it could only go logically into the area in front of the helm. We did Ts at the A/P pump and ran the lines from the steering wheel pump into the A/P pump, then ran the other end of the Ts went to the helm steering pump, and a third return line when to the vent line connection at the Uflex pump as per their technical support directions.
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Post by tunawhisperer on Dec 1, 2023 6:29:50 GMT -5
Thank you again. This information is helping a lot. My concern now is the power steering pump if the AP pump has to be below this. My power steering pump is in my console below the helm next to the batteries. Batteries need to come out to access which I already know is a PIA since I replaced them last summer. I was planning to put the pump in my foot locker below the helm. Have to check the difference in height, but almost certain it is above the pump. Would have to measure by how much. Not sure if there is any other spot to put it.
I have the UFLEX UC128-SVS 2. Quick search shows this is volume of 120 cc - 7.3 cu. in.
Leaning towards the 2.0L pump.
Pics below of where the power steering pump is and where I am planning to put the AP pump. Would have to cut some access for the hydraulic lines.
Edit: Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. The AP pump needs to be below the helm itself? or the power steering pump?
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