777
Seaman
Posts: 21
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Post by 777 on Nov 20, 2018 6:12:51 GMT -5
I've been looking to move up to a larger boat from my 236cc and have been trying to do research on what's going to be the best value that fits my needs but it's nearly impossible as every post or debate (on the hull truth) is just I have this boat so it's the best or spend 250k on xyz brand. I thought I had found what I was looking for in the Bluewater 2550 or 2850 because the space was great and it was mostly a flat deck without forward seating for a reasonable price (although they are higher than they used to be) I went on one at the boat show and just couldn't get over how low the gunwhales were compared to my Sailfish 236. Also the space between the console and the side was very tight (8'-5" beam and a large console). I can't find anything else similar for a reasonable price so I was contemplating on getting a larger Sailfish and feel like the 2860 may fit the bill.
Things I don't like and want to remedy on the sailfish 236:
1. Under powered in my opinion w/225 Yamaha 4-stroke. Would like to be in the mid-50's top end but more importantly cruise at 35-40mph and get decent fuel economy. I want twin engines.
2. Pretty wet boat in what I would consider not very rough conditions . Inlet can be nasty when the tide and wind is at the right conditions.
3. Very tipsy at drift and sensitive to weight changes. Ie. if 2 or 3 people shift to one side and look over the boat at something it feels like it's going to flip over.
4. Bow of boat has quite the angle to the gunwhale making leaning against it awkward. I know most 2 piece boats have issues in this regard but I didn't think the Bluewater was bad at all since the sides are almost vertical.
Now with all that being said, I'm sure a lot of those issues are due to the smaller size. I had a Sailfish 176cc and the 236cc is considerably better in every way. Unfortunately, the only other boat I have a good amount of experience on is my friends 28 southport, which rides great (never been wet on that boat) and won't rock at all when drifting or shifting weight. I guess I'm wondering if the 2860 will behave similarly without the price tag. I appreciate the help.
My current list of boats I had been considering and the issues I had with them (I've only been on the bluewater so a lot of this is based on pictures and may not be true):
1. Bluewater 2550 (low gunwhales, narrow)
2. Competition 25 (not a fan of the layout/storage, small console)
3. Ocean Runner 2900 (rarely can find used ones, priced higher)
4. Whitewater (rarely can find used ones)
5. Sailfish 2860 or 3006 - seem to be similarly priced on used market (has forward seating, don't like my 236 2-piece design at the bow)
6. Bluewater 2850 - (low gunwhales, priced higher)
7. Cobia 296 - (has forward seating, more expensive than Sailfish)
I do a lot of drift fishing and looking to start trolling more. As I mentioned above, the Southport 28 is perfect for my needs but it's too expensive (over 100k used), I don't like the console layout and would like the tournament edition for the livewell/tackle station setup. I know I'm being picky but if I'm going to spend 70k+ on a boat then I'd like it be what works for me. The boat will be a fishing boat 90% of the time and I really have no need for forward seating but I do like how bluewater has the removable forward seating setup if I'm doing a cruise day or scalloping/lobstering with a bunch of people. I probably wouldn't be opposed to forward seating if there was enough walking space. The 236 has hardly any room in the bow and is always a hassle maneuvering for me. That's what led me to try and find boats without it.
-Kevin
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Post by fishnfool on Nov 20, 2018 9:23:22 GMT -5
A good list. Some more hardcore fishing boats than the others. Cobia makes a nice boat, similar to SF although the finish work eg wiring on the newer Cobias is ahead of an older 2860, it will likely cost more too.
Hard to beat the SF for the dollars but even the used market now is getting nuts.
I am sure Richard can share his experiences on his 2860 as can a couple of other members.
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Post by outtadblue on Nov 20, 2018 9:59:10 GMT -5
Hard to beat the sailfish 2860 when its all said and done. All boats have advantages over others and of course disadvantages. One thing I will say about the Southport is the fuel economy is not as good as sailfish. It's a heavy boat. My next door neighbor at my marina has one. I don't care for the layout either. I looked at Bluewater 2850 and priced them new several years ago, but at the end of the day the sailfish won out. I have been on dryer boats than my sailfish, and I have been on wetter boats. I would say the bigger sailfish boats are dryer than the smaller ones. The in deck fish boxes are not very well insulated, so I Cary extra ice in the forward seating boxes if fishing in really hot wether for long trips or overnight. There are not many brand boats that I haven't been on and I can tell you I still like my sailfish. I will be happy to answer any specific questions you may have about the 2860.
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777
Seaman
Posts: 21
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Post by 777 on Nov 20, 2018 10:14:20 GMT -5
That's good to hear. I do know the fuel economy is terrible on the southport and I'm also not a fan of how big/heavy it is when towing. I will trailer the boat a minimum of once a year to the keys from Jacksonville and it's about an 8 hour drive. Also, it's about 30 minutes of highway travel to St. Augustine or Mayport from me so anytime I take the boat out I've got to trailer it there as well. That was another reason I liked the Bluewater 2550 because it's a lighter boat and with the bracket is closer to a 28' boat while trailering like a 25' boat. Console is also pushed pretty far forward so it feels really big when standing back there.
1. Are the 2860 gunwhales up front as sloped as on the 236 or are they more vertical. I really dislike how far you have to lean to touch them on my boat. 2. Seems that a comparable bluewater 2550 is a good bit more expensive than the 2860. Is that you're experience? 3. What did you like about the Sailfish over the bluewater that swayed your decision? 4. How would you compare the ride on the Sailfish vs. the Southport? 5. I've been on the 290 but not a 2860 and to be honest I don't remember much since it's been a few years. Is the space up front pretty usable or is it tight with the forward seating and the console bench up front as well? 6. How's the performance with the 250's and real world fuel economy? The performance bulletins don't look too bad for that size/weight boat. 7. How's the stability when anchored or at drift? There's been plenty of times on my 236 that I just went back in because it was so hard to stand and fish with the boat bouncing all over the place. The Southport won't hardly even rock on days that I wouldn't even attempt to go out in my 236.
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Post by fishnfool on Nov 20, 2018 10:46:23 GMT -5
If looking at the BW 2550, then dont overlook the 2660/270. Same beam at the 2860 only 2' shorter. It forward cap that slants in does suck but i do 95% fishing in the stern anyway so I can live with it, lots of room back there.
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Post by outtadblue on Nov 20, 2018 10:49:10 GMT -5
1. They are sloped but not as much. I like to stand on the forward seating/fish boxes and cast to cobia and busting tuna and it works well. All 2 piece boats will have a little slope. 2. Not sure about the 2550. The 2850 is a good bit more. 3. I found a deal on my sailfish that you wouldn't believe. I never got a chance to ride on the Bluewater but did look at one. I think they both have similar layouts and storage. More insulation in the Bluewater. 4. Sailfish likes to ride on top and the southport will plow more. Southport will be more stable at rest but not a big problem on the sailfish. 5. Very usable up front. You can walk around with no problem, you can put an extra ice chest up there or a large kill bag. The 290 and 2860 are the same. 6. Loaded for bear on overnight trips with 4-6 people in 1-2 foot seas I get 1.5 mpg. That's 240 gal gas, 2 ice chest and 250 lbs of ice. I will run 3800 to 4200 rpm going 32 to 36 mph. With a lighter load and half tank gas I get 1.7 to 1.8 running 4000-4400 rpm going 38-40 mph. I have seen 1.9 mpg with light loads. Top end is 55 mph. 7. I would say it's pretty stable. I go out a lot when others stay in. I fish a ton on a 36 Cape Horn and a 29 yellowfin. I will fish any day out of my sailfish that those 2 boats would fish.
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777
Seaman
Posts: 21
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Post by 777 on Nov 20, 2018 11:10:03 GMT -5
I appreciate the response. There's a sailfish dealer near me so I'll go check out the 290 and see how the setup is again.
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Post by kbh on Nov 20, 2018 13:27:30 GMT -5
I went with my best friend up to Stuart to look at a Bluewater 2850 and that was a beast. I can't imagine towing that thing with anything less than an F350 and certainly not 8 hours. He ended up buying a 28 Whitewater and has been loving it ever since.
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777
Seaman
Posts: 21
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Post by 777 on Nov 21, 2018 13:41:20 GMT -5
I went with my best friend up to Stuart to look at a Bluewater 2850 and that was a beast. I can't imagine towing that thing with anything less than an F350 and certainly not 8 hours. He ended up buying a 28 Whitewater and has been loving it ever since. That seems extreme to need an F350 for the Bluewater 2850. I've never towed a boat with an F250+ diesel so I admit I have no experience with how much better, if any, the heavy duty trucks pull. The only experience I have is with my 2011 F150 and a 2007 2500 silverado, which makes me wonder if most everything you read is one of a few possibilites: 1. Truck marketing is good at getting you to buy a more expensive truck 2. People have experience with trucks of 10+ years ago 3. People have no experience and just repeat what they hear. The reason I say that is I had to pull my friends southport (8,000lbs plus trailer and gear) one day to the ramp because his truck died the morning of our offshore trip. I was worried about pulling 10,000 lbs because I've towed the boat with his 2500 silverado and it's a struggle. My truck pulled the boat much better than his. It was a very significant difference and I was shocked. My F150 is a 2011 with the ecoboost and excelled in every way...acceleration, handling & braking. The Bluewater 2850 appears to be about 1500 lbs less than the Southport. Does anyone else have direct experience with the newer F150 vs F250 diesel comparisons? I'm curious to know if there's truly a big difference to justify the cost of moving up. I'm also not a fan of how they look and I'd imagine they do not drive as comfortable with the stiffer suspension.
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Post by outtadblue on Nov 21, 2018 16:31:23 GMT -5
I have moved my 2860 with the wife's GMC Yukon which is 1/2 ton 2 wheel drive and had no problems. I didn't tow it a long distance, but I think I could have. I normally use my 2500 hd duramax. I used my brother n laws dodge 3500 to tow it to the keys and will say it was the best. I launch a 36 Cape Horn with the 2500 all the time with no problem. You don't need a 1 ton to pull any of the boats on your list, but the bigger the better. I think over time your f150's suspension and transmission would give you trouble.
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Post by gatorman on Nov 21, 2018 20:38:44 GMT -5
777,
I pull my 2660 with an 2013 F-250 6.7L diesel to Islamorada FL from NC "14hrs one way" once a year for a 2 week vacation. That's boat, rods, gear, luggage, etc, etc for a 2 week trip. It pulls it with no hesitation and has loads of power jumping on and off on/off ramps getting back on I-95. I used to have a Silverado 1500 and the difference is night and day. I never pulled the 2660 with the 1500 but pulled a 24 proline CC 6 hours and it did a lot of gear searching at 65-70mph the whole time. The 1500 got the job done but I would not buy another after having a 2500 diesel, as I'm on my 4th one now. I also pull commercial power washing trailers daily 8-10klbs and would not do it in a 1500 if I had the choice. As far as ride and comfort my F-250 rides just as nice "trailer less" as my buddies 2019 Silverado 1500 to me personally. And the best part is Diesel trucks hold there value much better than gas trucks. Just my 2 cents....
Gatorman
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Post by keywest2860 on Nov 21, 2018 21:52:43 GMT -5
I've been looking to move up to a larger boat from my 236cc and have been trying to do research on what's going to be the best value that fits my needs but it's nearly impossible as every post or debate (on the hull truth) is just I have this boat so it's the best or spend 250k on xyz brand. I thought I had found what I was looking for in the Bluewater 2550 or 2850 because the space was great and it was mostly a flat deck without forward seating for a reasonable price (although they are higher than they used to be) I went on one at the boat show and just couldn't get over how low the gunwhales were compared to my Sailfish 236. Also the space between the console and the side was very tight (8'-5" beam and a large console). I can't find anything else similar for a reasonable price so I was contemplating on getting a larger Sailfish and feel like the 2860 may fit the bill. Things I don't like and want to remedy on the sailfish 236: 1. Under powered in my opinion w/225 Yamaha 4-stroke. Would like to be in the mid-50's top end but more importantly cruise at 35-40mph and get decent fuel economy. I want twin engines. 2. Pretty wet boat in what I would consider not very rough conditions . Inlet can be nasty when the tide and wind is at the right conditions. 3. Very tipsy at drift and sensitive to weight changes. Ie. if 2 or 3 people shift to one side and look over the boat at something it feels like it's going to flip over. 4. Bow of boat has quite the angle to the gunwhale making leaning against it awkward. I know most 2 piece boats have issues in this regard but I didn't think the Bluewater was bad at all since the sides are almost vertical. Now with all that being said, I'm sure a lot of those issues are due to the smaller size. I had a Sailfish 176cc and the 236cc is considerably better in every way. Unfortunately, the only other boat I have a good amount of experience on is my friends 28 southport, which rides great (never been wet on that boat) and won't rock at all when drifting or shifting weight. I guess I'm wondering if the 2860 will behave similarly without the price tag. I appreciate the help. My current list of boats I had been considering and the issues I had with them (I've only been on the bluewater so a lot of this is based on pictures and may not be true): 1. Bluewater 2550 (low gunwhales, narrow) 2. Competition 25 (not a fan of the layout/storage, small console) 3. Ocean Runner 2900 (rarely can find used ones, priced higher) 4. Whitewater (rarely can find used ones) 5. Sailfish 2860 or 3006 - seem to be similarly priced on used market (has forward seating, don't like my 236 2-piece design at the bow) 6. Bluewater 2850 - (low gunwhales, priced higher) 7. Cobia 296 - (has forward seating, more expensive than Sailfish) I do a lot of drift fishing and looking to start trolling more. As I mentioned above, the Southport 28 is perfect for my needs but it's too expensive (over 100k used), I don't like the console layout and would like the tournament edition for the livewell/tackle station setup. I know I'm being picky but if I'm going to spend 70k+ on a boat then I'd like it be what works for me. The boat will be a fishing boat 90% of the time and I really have no need for forward seating but I do like how bluewater has the removable forward seating setup if I'm doing a cruise day or scalloping/lobstering with a bunch of people. I probably wouldn't be opposed to forward seating if there was enough walking space. The 236 has hardly any room in the bow and is always a hassle maneuvering for me. That's what led me to try and find boats without it. -Kevin I love my 2011 2860! Not the driest boat in its class but it has a great layout. I’m down in Key West and it’s the perfect combination of fishing and cruising to the sand bars. I do a lot of offshore trolling and more island hoping trips and she never lets me down.
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Post by kbh on Nov 24, 2018 16:37:03 GMT -5
My comment about needing an F350 was more tongue in cheek about the size of the Bluewater 2850 than actual ability of a truck. When we looked at it it was in a marina on an outdoor cradle and the owner didn't trailer it. He thought it was too big to comfortably trailer more than short distances and the 3 of us looking at it agreed.
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Post by ragtop409 on Nov 25, 2018 16:09:17 GMT -5
Good friend has a 28’ Parker CC with 2 F-225 on it. Not sure the wait or size difference. He pulls it with a Ford 3/4 ton diesel and I can’t imagine doing it with anything less for any distance. Rag’s
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Post by mikey111k on Nov 27, 2018 15:29:35 GMT -5
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