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Post by seegee123 on Apr 4, 2024 10:48:59 GMT -5
tldr: is it normal that I can only use 155 gallons of fuel before being 'out of gas' with the 188 gallon fuel tank?
I have a 2016 275DC with twin Yamaha 150s, and the 188 gallon fuel tank. A few weeks ago, I did an offshore trip. It's about an 80 mile run, so I filled up the boat all the way of course. Immediately after filling up, I reset the 'trip' on the Yamaha fuel management gauge so it was at 0. When we got back to land, the tach read 150 gallons burned since reset. To me, this seems like a safe amount of fuel to come back with, there should be almost 40 gallons left in the tank! However, I ended up going out in the harbor the next day, and about 10 minutes in, the engines sputter out, and I'm out of gas. I was luckily able to idle back to the fuel dock, but even at idle speed, the engines were sputtering out and barely getting enough fuel to run. When this happened, the management gauge read 155 gallons used. After filling up more fuel, everything was fine.
So my question is, is it normal for the last 30+ gallons of the fuel tank to not be usable like this, or is something else going on?? I understand that it's a big tank, and that the fuel pickup may not be positioned to suck up every last drop of fuel, but not being able to use the last 30 gallons of the tank seems crazy to me! Has anyone else experienced anything like this on their Sailfish?
Right now, I'm thinking these are the possibilities:
- The Yamaha 'gallons burned' tracking on the tach could be inaccurate, but from what I've read online, everyone says they're accurate within 1-2 gallons when tested.
- Something is stopping me from actually filling the whole tank. I did sit there for at least 5 minutes and continuously topped it off after the pump stopped, just to make sure I got every last drop in there. Maybe the bottom of the tank has water in it that's taking up space, or the air can't properly vent when its almost full so it won't fill all the way?
I don't really have any ideas other than that and would appreciate any advice! The last 30-40 gallons are crucial for me when doing offshore trips, in order to come home with a safe reserve.
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Apr 4, 2024 11:06:13 GMT -5
When you filled up, how many gallons did you put in? That would tell you how much gas you actually used, and you should compare that to the Yamaha fuel management gauge each time to see how accurate you are. I believe there is even an offset that you can enter as a percentage to account for differences in the actual vs. calculated figure...I can put it in on the settings screen of the MFD but I usually don't mess with it and just watch use and throw in plenty of buffer to ensure I don't run out. On my 2017 275 DC with twin F200s, I find the Yamaha calculation typically underreports fuel use by 7-12%.
Some of my fill up notes have been: 1)Total used is 148.5 gallons since last fill. Traveled 303.5 miles, 2.043 MPG average for tank. Boat says I used 130.9 gallons so error is -11.85% boat vs. reality. 2)Added 136.75 Gallons $669.80 @ $4.899/gal since last fill. Traveled 288.2 miles and used 127.1 per Yamaha gauge so it slightly underreports, 2.107 MPG average for tank. Boat gauge error is -7.057% boat vs. reality. 3) 23.3 (P) and 23.4 (S) hours since last fill. Boat gauge says used 116.4 gals but pumped in 124.96 gals. Distance since last fill was 256.0 miles, 2.048 MPG for tank. Boat gauge reading is 6.85% low for actual gas used based on these numbers.
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Post by fishnfool on Apr 4, 2024 11:10:07 GMT -5
How many gallons did you put in according to pump vs what you used and approx how many gallons were already in the tank?
When you refilled empty, how many gallons could you get in the tank?
I think some of these new epa vents cause some problems causing the pumps to kick off prematurely.
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Post by seegee123 on Apr 4, 2024 11:39:13 GMT -5
When you filled up, how many gallons did you put in? That would tell you how much gas you actually used, and you should compare that to the Yamaha fuel management gauge each time to see how accurate you are. I believe there is even an offset that you can enter as a percentage to account for differences in the actual vs. calculated figure...I can put it in on the settings screen of the MFD but I usually don't mess with it and just watch use and throw in plenty of buffer to ensure I don't run out. On my 2017 275 DC with twin F200s, I find the Yamaha calculation typically underreports fuel use by 7-12%. Some of my fill up notes have been: 1)Total used is 148.5 gallons since last fill. Traveled 303.5 miles, 2.043 MPG average for tank. Boat says I used 130.9 gallons so error is -11.85% boat vs. reality. 2)Added 136.75 Gallons $669.80 @ $4.899/gal since last fill. Traveled 288.2 miles and used 127.1 per Yamaha gauge so it slightly underreports, 2.107 MPG average for tank. Boat gauge error is -7.057% boat vs. reality. 3) 23.3 (P) and 23.4 (S) hours since last fill. Boat gauge says used 116.4 gals but pumped in 124.96 gals. Distance since last fill was 256.0 miles, 2.048 MPG for tank. Boat gauge reading is 6.85% low for actual gas used based on these numbers. interesting.. I didn't think margin of error would be that high, everything I've read says the gauges should be within 5% at most. Will definitely keep that in mind. There was some gas already in the boat when I filled up and I don't know exactly how much. But the based on the price at that time and my credit card statement, I put in 165 gallons. I didn't do a full fill-up after the fact because the fuel dock charges $5.50 /gal. I usually only fill the tank fully on land before doing an offshore trip.
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Post by seegee123 on Apr 4, 2024 11:40:56 GMT -5
How many gallons did you put in according to pump vs what you used and approx how many gallons were already in the tank? When you refilled empty, how many gallons could you get in the tank? I think some of these new epa vents cause some problems causing the pumps to kick off prematurely. I'll have to do some more experimenting, I've only had the boat for a year and typically don't fill the tank all of the way. I'll have to get it down to basically empty, then fill it all the way up and see how much it will take. Is there any possibility that theres gallons of water taking up space in the bottom of the tank due to condensation over the winter(s)?
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Post by seegee123 on Apr 4, 2024 11:47:07 GMT -5
When you filled up, how many gallons did you put in? That would tell you how much gas you actually used, and you should compare that to the Yamaha fuel management gauge each time to see how accurate you are. I believe there is even an offset that you can enter as a percentage to account for differences in the actual vs. calculated figure...I can put it in on the settings screen of the MFD but I usually don't mess with it and just watch use and throw in plenty of buffer to ensure I don't run out. On my 2017 275 DC with twin F200s, I find the Yamaha calculation typically underreports fuel use by 7-12%. Some of my fill up notes have been: 1)Total used is 148.5 gallons since last fill. Traveled 303.5 miles, 2.043 MPG average for tank. Boat says I used 130.9 gallons so error is -11.85% boat vs. reality. 2)Added 136.75 Gallons $669.80 @ $4.899/gal since last fill. Traveled 288.2 miles and used 127.1 per Yamaha gauge so it slightly underreports, 2.107 MPG average for tank. Boat gauge error is -7.057% boat vs. reality. 3) 23.3 (P) and 23.4 (S) hours since last fill. Boat gauge says used 116.4 gals but pumped in 124.96 gals. Distance since last fill was 256.0 miles, 2.048 MPG for tank. Boat gauge reading is 6.85% low for actual gas used based on these numbers. is it realistic to assume that you can burn almost all of the fuel in the tank? theoretically, if you can use 180 gallons of the 188 gallon tank, that means my tach reported 155 gallons used when truly 180 gallons were used. thats 15% error.
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Post by fishnfool on Apr 4, 2024 12:09:16 GMT -5
How many gallons did you put in according to pump vs what you used and approx how many gallons were already in the tank? When you refilled empty, how many gallons could you get in the tank? I think some of these new epa vents cause some problems causing the pumps to kick off prematurely. I'll have to do some more experimenting, I've only had the boat for a year and typically don't fill the tank all of the way. I'll have to get it down to basically empty, then fill it all the way up and see how much it will take. Is there any possibility that theres gallons of water taking up space in the bottom of the tank due to condensation over the winter(s)? Anything is possible I suppose but unlikely unless there was some issue that would allow 30 gallons of water in your tank. When you ran out that would've been the time your motors would really pick up the water and would've caused your 'water in fuel' alarms to go off, that and you could drop your water fuel separating filters and you would find water in your gas. I suspect it has more to do with tracking gallons in vs out and possibly a pump that shut off early. You should always know how many gallons you got in your tank when filling before going offshore vs approx how many gallons are in your tank. Make sure your fuel vent isn't partially blocked up too. Mud dobbers and the like to build nests in the tiny crooks and cranys.
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jerryk
Captain
When not online I'm likely on Knot Online
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Post by jerryk on Apr 4, 2024 12:47:04 GMT -5
I highly doubt you have gallons of water in the fuel tank--your draw tube should be in the bottom of the tank and would suck the water first since the gas would float above it, and you'd have all kinds of trouble plus water in fuel filters and alarms as has already been stated. More likely you either weren't full when you thought you were, or are using more gas than your gauges are showing which is what I suspect. That's exactly why I take notes at every fill up and calculate MPG and track actual usage against what the boat gauges tell me.
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Post by hookedup on Apr 4, 2024 13:01:29 GMT -5
Interesting conversation since my 80 mile ride to the Gulf Stream then trolling and then the 80 miles back has always concerned me. However, I've always had plenty of fuel left when I get back.
Can't say why, but my Yamaha gauge has always been right on for fuel use. It may be a few tenths off, but never even a gallon off based on full tank, run it until it should be only about 1/4 full if local runs, then filling it up and checking gauge use vice gallons in. Granted I rarely run it WOT for more than a few minutes, but running out I'm usually at 24-28MPH, then troll or drift fish and run back at 24-28.
Perhaps it's the dual engines causing reading anomalies?
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Post by finatic on Apr 4, 2024 17:30:17 GMT -5
For what it's worth the command link gauge's on my boat are dead nuts accurate 100 percent of the time. And I also drain 100 percent of fuel from the tank every fall before putting to bed for the season.
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Post by abouttime2fish on Apr 4, 2024 21:03:50 GMT -5
I’m not sure your fuel capacity number is correct either.
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Post by footy3 on Apr 5, 2024 6:15:06 GMT -5
How many gallons did you put in according to pump vs what you used and approx how many gallons were already in the tank? When you refilled empty, how many gallons could you get in the tank? I think some of these new epa vents cause some problems causing the pumps to kick off prematurely. I'll have to do some more experimenting, I've only had the boat for a year and typically don't fill the tank all of the way. I'll have to get it down to basically empty, then fill it all the way up and see how much it will take. Is there any possibility that theres gallons of water taking up space in the bottom of the tank due to condensation over the winter(s)? I'm pretty sure if you had gallons of water in your tank you'd have a lot of other warning signs before running out of fuel became an issue.
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Post by fishnfool on Apr 5, 2024 8:09:28 GMT -5
By chance would certain options like an electric head and holding tank reduce fuel capacity? In other words to make room would SF have installed say a 150 gallon tank in that case?
I don't see anything in the owners manual and one would think if that were the case it would have been highlighted.
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Apr 5, 2024 8:23:49 GMT -5
Nope. The gas tank is under the cockpit sole and is in an entirely different location than the holding tank which is forward of the helm on the starboard side, in front of the protected storage area behind the helm. There is nothing else that would impact the size of that tank, and on mine I've filled it as much as 160 gallons or so with some still in the tank. I still haven't heard how many gallons it took to fill after the out of gas condition...that would be your clue as to if there was a venting/air lock issue that prevented the tank from filling completely. That is the test that needs to be done.
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Apr 5, 2024 8:42:03 GMT -5
This is from the 2017 manual, but I don't think the tank changed from 2016. Attachments:275 specs.pptx (630.39 KB)
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