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Post by hookedup on Jul 12, 2022 16:29:56 GMT -5
I was unable to locate the head sink hose anywhere, but I was able to re-hose the galley sink and the center storage drain. Fixed. First time I've ever had this thru hull pass water so easy:
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Jul 12, 2022 17:48:07 GMT -5
That water flowing out looks great! There should be a class action discussion with Sailfish about their drains and manufacturing defects like pinched or kinked drain hoses...there are too many of us with problems and the fix isn't always simple. They should be standing up behind their products!
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Post by hookedup on Jul 12, 2022 18:22:56 GMT -5
Mixed feelings on that. Don't want to make lawyers rich or ruin Sailfish. However, I agree they should stand by their boats and fix what they hold responsibility for. Albemarle picked up my boat, replaced most of the lower hull and returned it to me when they had made a design failure.
Aaron did agree if I brought my boat to them, they'd take a look. But, now that they know the problem is theirs it would be nice to see them step up and take more responsibility. I did ask Aaron how the head and galley hoses were connected and didn't get an answer yet. For now, I'll just let the head sink drain where ever it does and limit it's use. So happy to have the center storage and galley sink drain.
Did I mention in 90+ degree heat I wore shorts and short sleeve shirt...And I cut into fiberglass. A lot of fiberglass. I itch a lot. I forget way too often and I've been doing fiberglass work since I was a kid (surfboards, hydroplanes, etc.). Oh well, maybe I'll remember next time to dress properly.
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jerryk
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When not online I'm likely on Knot Online
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Post by jerryk on Jul 12, 2022 19:07:44 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting getting lawyers involved at this stage, but I do know that with several of us all having same or similar issues that is a result of obvious manufacturing and/or design flaws, a discussion with Sailfish should be done to see what they will do. I would hope they stand behind their operation and do the right thing...not trying to bankrupt them but just get a fair reimbursement.
For many of us getting the boat to them would not be an easy option...unless a marina with a trailer could pick it up and do the transport. I have no trailer and no tow vehicle. That alone would be much more costly to Sailfish or us owners than a consideration credit for our own repair work. Maybe they could offer some parts or accessories up to a value that equates to the value of repairs done by owners. I would start with a request to Aaron and I'd be happen to make it on our joint behalf if someone gets me his contact information.
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Post by fishnfool on Jul 12, 2022 19:54:16 GMT -5
Aaron ain't the guy to get it done guys. Not suggesting that SF will ultimately step up and pay to transport your boats etc but if you're looking for someone at SF to potentially take some ownership of the issue, consider escalating it internally at SF.
They are under new ownership and I think part of that investment strategy is to improve quality and reputation so that may work in your favor here.
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Post by DMBekus on Jul 13, 2022 7:00:12 GMT -5
various: on my boat the head sink is separate. The galley sink hose connects to center locker hose with a T, then goes to the thru hull. My repair abandons the kinked hose in place, adds a 2nd T (and vent) and all works.
I fixed and paid for my own repairs on many things on this boat and the 2 other boats I owned (Regal less issues then Sailfish-Tidewater more) Early on I resigned myself to that and did my sailfish review video with the specific purpose of not bashing but improving. When I was working through my issues with the Tidewater I ended up at a boat shop in Deerfield Beach FL, which does mostly high end work and he told me boat builders focus on what you can SEE. That is eminently true. Certainly, some boats are better, and some boats cost more.
What I learned on the center locker drain issue is any boat, any manufacture, that has a small diameter drain line- more than a few inches long, it probably doesn’t work right. It is apparent that a crushed line is a QC issue, and easy to fix one at that. I have been to the factory, met with the management and believe they are making improvements (they are also trying to expand their geographic sale areas-but that’s another topic). It would be nice if sailfish came up with something, if they don’t, I will still work with them. In the long run we will all end up with better boats.
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Post by hookedup on Jul 13, 2022 7:36:02 GMT -5
I thought the head sink might not go to the same thru hull, but even with 2 new holes in the boat I couldn't be sure if I missed it or not. I had another T ready, just in case I could find it. My hose was not just crushed, but embedded in glue/sealant stuff between the deck and the stringer. I think that's where the original T is located.
I noticed after washing the boat some water still ends up in the center storage. I'll caulk the drain in place to help eliminate it (I hope). I don't know if it was caulked originally, or if I broke it free when working on it. It's not much water and every boat I've had with a center storage always leaked a little.
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Post by DMBekus on Jul 13, 2022 10:14:41 GMT -5
I have never been on or seen a boat without water getting in the bilge, passed drains, unless inside a show room....
If the water going into the locker gutter exceeds the 1/2" actual opening of the drain fittings abilty, the excess water will go into the locker. Which is why the design should have a 1" line....
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Post by hookedup on Jul 13, 2022 11:32:09 GMT -5
I have never been on or seen a boat without water getting in the bilge, passed drains, unless inside a show room.... If the water going into the locker gutter exceeds the 1/2" actual opening of the drain fittings abilty, the excess water will go into the locker. Which is why the design should have a 1" line.... In the first 10 years my Albemarle 285XF never had a drop of water in the bilge. Beat the crap out of that boat on offshore trips for tuna and literally froze my fishing reels while fishing striper and had to open the window to see out as the windshield was frozen too. Best 10 years of boating I ever had, but after that it was the worst boat I ever owned. Engine problems, outdrive problems, and hull failure (Albemarle rebuilt the hull at their expense and shipping).
I thought my next boat a Robalo had a serious problem because the bilge always had water in it, but I learned that was 'normal'. Now my Sailfish has "normal" bilge water too. I figure if Albemarle can create a dry bilge boat other manufacturers can too, but they chose not to.
Simple things...The Sailfish fresh water overflow empties into the bilge. Could have done a thru hull, or attached it to an existing thru hull, but decided the bilge was a good place for the water to go. Because of that design with no way to know how much water is in the tank, I either overfill (water into bilge), underfill and wish I had more water, or occasionally hit it just right, but in waves the water sloshes around and out the overfill and into the bilge. And, we all know how many other intentional designs put water into the bilge (cup holders, rod holders, starboard most galley sink, etc., etc.) that could have been directed elsewhere. I'm sure a lot of the design is a cost decision, but I know you can design a boat with a dry bilge since I've already had one.
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Jul 13, 2022 12:54:01 GMT -5
All my prior boats were dry bilge boats with the exception of the aft area under the engine on my Carver express cruiser...I think water got in mostly in rain or when I washed it through the side vents to the engine compartment. I had some water from the A/C condensation forward when I got the boat, but eliminated that with a Mermaid condensator which sucked condensation out with the water flow going through the A/C unit. Dry after that.
I also have what I think is the freshwater vent/overfill going into my bilge on my Sailfish, and I've been thinking of an elegant way to route that overboard...maybe a through hull addition in the splash well or back up near the fill connection? Another project for another day. I don't want seawater to backfill into fresh, so this will take some thought. But I share your assessment that bilges should be dry. Hard to imagine that a bilge pump is what is keeping me afloat normally!
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Post by hookedup on Jul 13, 2022 14:49:57 GMT -5
I also have what I think is the freshwater vent/overfill going into my bilge on my Sailfish, and I've been thinking of an elegant way to route that overboard...maybe a through hull addition in the splash well or back up near the fill connection? Another project for another day. I don't want seawater to backfill into fresh, so this will take some thought. But I share your assessment that bilges should be dry. Hard to imagine that a bilge pump is what is keeping me afloat normally! It would be nice to have a dry bilge again.
I too tried to come up with an overflow solution. I was thinking something like a snorkel (upside down U with a ball to stop upflow) and hook that into a thru hull or existing thru hull drain. I hadn't planned to work on this anytime soon as it's an annoyance, not a problem.
We'd still be left with forward cup holders, all the rod holders and if you have a galley, those cup holders and the small starboard sink. Plus I think the underseat cooler, head floor drain, and center storage floor drain. No realistic way to have a dry bilge. Since my boat is in a boatel 95% of all water in the bilge is caused by the fresh water overflow and me washing the boat.
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jerryk
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Post by jerryk on Jul 15, 2022 8:22:26 GMT -5
Hi all, just a quick note to let you know that I sent a letter to Sailfish asking for two things: Improvements in the boat line parts, materials, and manufacturing process to eliminate drain issues on future boats, and I asked for some consideration to owners who have experienced drain failures and tackled fixing the problem themselves. Yesterday I got a call back from Rob Parmentier, President and CEO of Sailfish boats. We had a nice long chat and he described some of the improvements he has made to their operation since arriving in 2020, and also said he would review similar warranty claims to assess what cost the company might have incurred should those of us who did our own fixes instead come through the warranty channel. Nothing specific was offered during the call and my purpose was less to try to get something of value and instead I focused on quality improvements and being fair to owners where they have let us down. We'll see what further happens, but I will say that I was encouraged by the discussion with Rob and feel he is on the right track with directing the company via weekly warranty/customer service focused meetings, adding additional engineers to the company, and listing to feedback from customers like us. I'll share any updates that I get as a result of that letter and discussion, but I am encouraged that the company really does value feedback and cares about product quality. I thank you all for your feedback via this forum as communication of our challenges is valuable to fellow owners as well as to Sailfish.
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Post by fishnfool on Jul 15, 2022 10:37:48 GMT -5
Rob could have just as easily had someone else call you so it is encouraging to hear that he took the time to reach out directly. I believe new ownership is vested in improving the quality and brand reputation - not that it was bad before, to the contrary, but there is room for improvement.
Good job
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